seachem amguard

Hey guys ,I have a ammonia reading of 0.5 in a tank I'm cycling ,all no2 and no3 are fine its just ammonia .I purchased amuard by seachem wich instantly binds ammonia but apparently it creates confusion with ammonia test kits as most test kits calculate total ammonia not bound ammonia (bound being safe ,as a result of using amguard )....thus test kits give a positive ammonia reading when infact the ammonia is bound by amgaurd thus unharmful .so I use api masters kit wich measures total ammonia and I can't find a kit that measures bound .thus I have a dilemma ! Do I trust the product to do as it says ?it has instructions on how much ammonia a measure binds .well that's really my only option .I just want to know you guys experiences with the product and if you have tested your ammonia before and after using a bound ammonia test kit ? If you did and it worked I'm good !!

Cheers

 

I see I made the mistake of posting this on the weekend ,this thread has had many views come on guys please share any experiences I need the help !

 

I have never used SeaChem Amguard, nor have I used any similar products, but personally I'd avoid them at any cost. All that they do is mess around with the nitrogen cycle, which screws around with the whole process.

From what I understand here, this product will bind the ammonia (I assume it turns into a less harmful compound). This means that the beneficial bacteria that would have developed to deal with the ammonia will no longer do so, because the ammonia will no longer be in the water. This will delay the cycle.

But that's besides the point. The whole issue with this is that the ammonia that was in the water is no longer ammonia... but rather a new compound consisting of ammonia and something else. The test kit won't pick it up because it is no longer ammonia.

 

I find a water change to be far superior to any chemical treatment for controlling ammonia.

 

Good product, but a few questions first..

Hello there!
O.5ppm is a significant and dangerous level IF there are fish exposed to it for any length of time.

I have over the years used store bought testkits, electronic meters and laboratory titrations for Ammonia determinations.
ALL have some limitation or the other.
MOST aquarium hobby tests are nessler or salicylate based (these are just diiferent chemicals used during the testing procedure)
Some kits are not basd on either of these protocols!

Notice a step in testing elevates pH to unnnaturally high levels ?
At this pH (over 12, I think), ANY bound Ammonia is now released to react with the indicator and thus SHOWS UP as Ammonia. While , in reality it just is not so! This is called a false positive result.
As you so correctly deduced for yourself.

Seachem Amguard IS a fine product, leading it's genre of formulations used to remove toxic, ie FREE Ammonia in aquarium water. A few other companies have similar products, which may or may not have similar chemical pathways

I use it commercially to receive imports and local large volume orders of Marine fish, as well as sensitive species of freshwater tropicals including Discus etc.
(I recall, it should be reduced in dose, with caution, in temperatures around 30C)
In practice it saves thousands of fish and insodoing, been an incredible aid in commercial import, acclimation, for my annual aquarium fish trade operations.
The same benefits exist in hobby environments

One MUST realise , that if you are cycling an aquarium and NOT using a reputable blend of Bacterial filter starter(or aged filter material) THEN you are Removing the source of Ammonia that NORMAL,SLOWER ie. 3week traditional Nitrogen cycle would use and process while developing into a SAFE , HABITABLE , Aquarium environment.
That being said, Amguard is invaluable IF you HAVE fish installed ALREADY.

Otherwise, I'd say back off from using ANYTHING..besides proprietary Dechloraminator, and maybe Bacterial Starter....IF your water chemistry or fish sensitivity/health requirements are unknown, or municipal water supply is dodgy/suspect.

A side note...Ammonia as detoxified by Amguard (and to a large degree Seachem's Prime, Safe, Neutral Regulator does this too), and forming this "new, non-toxic compound" is absolutely biodegradable by Nitrifying filter bacteria.

So, while Ammonia is "changed",what occurs subsequently, as populations of filter bed nitrifiers develop... they actually can and do digest/process this "detoxified Ammonia-compound"...which normally is unreactive in normal aquarium conditions of temperature, pH , hardness etc.

Again, look to your aquarium and realize Ammonia comes BEFORE Nitrite and Nitrate.
I mention this, because you do not STATE what your Nitrite and Nitrate was(fine by what standard?), and you do not state the duration of tanksetup, nor do you mention if using aged filter media as innoculation , or store-bought Bacterial starter products eg) Seachem Stabiltiy, Hagen Cycle, Tetra Bactozym,etc...Nor do you mention if you have any livestock in your fishtank as yet.

Regarding Testing:
Well, it would make sense that the manufacturer of the additive which removes toxic free ammonia, WOULD formulate a compatible TEST METHOD.

SO, Seachem have produced Ammonia Alert, as a permanent INTANK Ammonia sensor system, or their Ammonia Test Kit, which is perfectly capable of detecting TOXIC FREE Ammonia, in much smaller, and more accurate amounts than most hobby-grade tests...based on a version of their Ammonia Alert sensor.
The MultiTest Ammonia testkit is capable of detecting the presence of Total AND Free Ammonia in aquarium water samples.

All these factors interact and influence the outcome of your new aquarium's ability to support and sustain it's current and future bioload of fish.

NB.
1)A simple drop in pH below 7.0 (neutral), to slightly acidic will effectively ALSO render Toxic Ammonia to relatively nontoxic Ammonium.
That bit of knowledge alone can save you money, time and fish lives.
2) If you DO a water change, and try to remove ammonia THAT WAY, you effectively cheat the initial bacteria of their essential input material. MUCH better to reduce or halt feeding AND to add a Bacterial culture from a mature, healthy, disease-free aquarium filter or a known , reliable Filter bacteria product like Seachem Stability and others available. Insodoing you reduce further Ammonia input AND increase rate of breakdown into Nitrite and , eventually Nitrate.

Here's a nice article called AMMONIA MANAGEMENT from the Seachem Library, perfectly related to your questions and products, without being an advertisement.

Maybe this helps?

 

shew that was a good reply >>>>>let me start again< nitrite is sitting at 0 and no3 was around 20 at the time of posting .i was using nutrafin cycle in conjunction with old filter media to cycle the tank .when i posted the tank was busy cycling for 2 weeks and a few days.....i added fish this weekend as on saturday ammonia reached 0.when acclimatizing the fish this weekend i used some amguard in the acclimatizing container and when introducing them into the tank i used a half dose of nutrafin cycle .



to some of your points :
1: i extensively researched the product and i read that seachem article on the website before purchasing .i iam aware that seachem makes a free ammonia test kit but i searched quite a few pet shops and none knew what i wanted .i literally read every test kit in stock at all shops to see if they measure bound ammonia .
2: i was using fishless cycling and i was aware that ammonia comes before no2 and no3 but i figured that since no3 was at a acceptable level all i had to do was decrease ammonia or bind it so to speak before i could add fish .doing a water change was not a option as you alredy know since the tank was cycling.
3:i was using nutrafin cycle from the start,day one i seeded the tank with old filter media as well as some water that i got from doing a gravel vac on my tank.then i closely monitored the parameters each day.when ammonia was still high and nitrate was at a good level (20ppm) i decided on dosing nutrafin cycle again and waiting 2 days to find ammonia at 0.i did however use amguard when acclimatizing the fish yesterday evening as i said above.on the topic of cycling products i chose nutrafin over seachem stability because i have read it halts the cycle in some cases and i didnt want to take the risk of that happening.
4:it was not a option to lower ph i did however consider it but i really dont like messing with ph so to speak.


thanks altum for that extensive reply! this thread will be a great source of knowledge for those who are doing fishless cycling as well as people who would like information on effective ammonia management.sorry i didnt delve into all the information needed about the tank so that you could formulate a response but at least you still gave a great response just incase i wasnt in the know.

cheers

 

N-N-NO problem

You're welcome:blink1:

..I happened to be awake all night, and chanced on the thread.
I am happy to hear your prior research is surely focused on your aquarium and it's continued health.:bigsmile:

1. I can help you out with Total & Free Ammonia Test Kit if you pm me with your email address
2. Simpler, easier would've been to use Prime. No harm done though, Amguard is potent! Stability can be used with initial stocking within first week, as long as temperature, water chemistry are all within acceptable levels for the fish being introduced....
3. Seachem Stability doesn't HALT the cycle...
Due to it being composed of several DIFFERENT groups of functional bacterial strains...it can be confusing to some observers EXPECTING a rise and fall in Nitrogen compounds with time.

Simply put : With standard label-dosages, You would have more than adequately populated your filter substrate/s to anticipate and be able to breakdown influx of ANY NEW Nitrogenous wastes from Protein>Ammonia-Nitrite-Nitrate and denitrification to simple Nitrogen gas

SO when youi look , and expect a certain typical rise-fall-rise sequence as we have become accustomed to...you simply WON'T find it....but rest assured that the filter"bed" is active, and suitable for recommended , conservative stocking levels within the first few days.

4. Your caution is well-founded. In future you could trend the pH from tap , to conditioned pre-use, and watch how it behaves with intank or in storage. this way when you would like to manipulate it, you would have a good "feel" and do so more confidently.

As for the reply, ...I can't get no sleep!
some VERY active Insomnia:amuse:

Keep Well

 

thanks alot man you keep well to .my initial plan was to get prime as i found it has other benefits over and above what amguard does but i couldnt find prime anywhere so i had to settle for amguard.

amguard is very potent ! i have a small container of the stuff in powder form and it treats 200 gallons at 1ppm ammonia !

hope you get some sleep,cheers ;-)

 

If you still looking

Hello

If it's Seachem Prime you'd like to get I can help you.
We can post those sort of small goods cheaply, and other li'l items can be sent along as well.

Just a bit of FYI:blink1:

 

Rather go for Seachem Safe, it is a concentrated powder form of prime, lasts forever.