Question on water parameters

Dear all, I have two questions related to water parameters.

1. On both my tanks, that pH has settled at about 7.9, which is a tad bit high for the fish I keep. It appears as if this is more or less the pH of the water as it comes from the tap. So the question is whether I should attempt to lower the pH, and if so, how? Note that the paludarium even has some tannins from a piece of wood in the tank, but this does not seem to influence the pH at the moment.

2. I have a set of test kits to measure ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. On both of my tanks I measure zeros throughout, which is exactly what I would expect given the planted sump in the big tank, and the emmergent plants in the paludarium. So the question is, would this water be considered 'nutrient poor' in the context of using it for carnivorous plants?

Looking forward to your expert opinions.

 

JJ

My tap water PH here in pretoria east is 8.5.
I installed a Reverse Osmosis system. Ph of the R.o Water is 5.

I mix 50/50 which gives me a PH of about 6.5

I did small water changes every other day (about 20%) which gradually brought the PH to a now stable 6.5

Hope this helps a bit.

I tested the Seachem buffer once in a bucket of water, It dropped the ph from 8.5 to 7 in 3 mins. Way to dramatic drop in such a short amount of time.

With regards to the 2nd question.

0 readings on both nitrate and nitrite, how long has this tank been running? Was it cycled?

 

@Flash, unfortunately I don't have one of those fancy and expensive RO machines, so I will have to make another plan. I was also looking at the buffer solutions the other day, and I suspect that one should be able to do a similar slow dilution trick? With the RO it is a bit more predictable since you know the exact parameters of the water. Has anyone tried this before?

Regarding the tanks, there is a bit of a story behind it. My 250l tank is filtered by a cannister filter and an overhead sump with plants. This tank was cycled in the usual and proper manner. I started experimenting a while ago with plants in the sump to act as natural filtration. According to what I can find, plants should use up ammonia directly, thereby skipping the whole nitrogen cycle. Even the ammonia that do get converted to nitrites and eventually nitrates, will be used up by the plants. Since implementing plants in my sump I am yet to get a non-zero reading on either of the three parameters.

These results prompted me to do a bit of a dodgy experiment on my paludarium when I set that up about a month ago. I took a 3ft tank and basically chopped off the top halve, so it is only 300mm or so in height. I went heavy on the emmergent plants, planting a bunch of dwarf papyrus and a bunch of dwarf water parsnip. Since the plants grow with their roots in the water and their leaves in the air, the CO2 supply is not an issue. This small tank has only a small mechanical filter, which I was with WARM water every weekend. No biological filtration at all, except for whatever bacteria has settled on the rocks and gravel. I put fish in the tank on day one. On this tank, I am also yet to measure a non-zero value on any of the parameters.

So, my theory is that the plants do a better job of filtration than the traditional biological filters.

EDIT: Sorry, the big tank has been running since November last year, I do 40% water change about once per month these days. Small tank has only been running for about a month. Last water change was just over a week ago, about 50%. Picture below.

 

Personally i use driftwood to lower my tanks PH

If you have to lower the PH then do it in your water aging container,you can slowly decrease the PH this way without shocking the fish or causing any unforseen mishaps.

 

@JJFury

The Dilution should work, however, let me warn you, diluting it in such small amounts DOES take quite some time :bigsmile: and you will need a small scale (depending on the size of the tank) to measure out exact amounts? I am yet to find a decent one in Pta btw.

I like your test you have done. Very interesting, how many fish did you put in?

What I'm thinking of is the "strain" the "filtration" system is under? I.E a lot of fish will naturally result in higher ammonia reading then (if any) due to the skipping of the nitrogen cycle?

Also on a personal note, just a thought, if you WERE to expose your beloved fishies to any harmful substances , for example nitrates/nitrites/ammonia, which one would you choose last?

Tank looks awesome btw!

@DCWarHound

what ph does the driftwood keep your tank at?

 

atm it's sitting at around 7.2,not sure how accurate the PH sticker is.

 

My 2cents to add:
If you want to lower the pH sodium biphosphate it the way to go. But do it very slowly, especially if the water hardness (or KH) is very low. If you have a reasonable KH then you can add the recommended dose of about 1 teaspoon per 25L for a safe bet. Just dissolve this beforehand in a seperate cup or something. I started out by adding 1 teaspoon per 50L for safety and then checking the pH an hour later (or the next day it is late in the evening). Do it this way at least 3 to 4 times before upping the normal dosing rate so that you get accustomed to how your tank chemistry reacts. Currently I dose my tank at about 1teaspoon per 20L per 12hr cycle (checking the pH before I add more).

 

Again I stress... Don't fiddle too much with your water parameters, it leads to heart ache. If your fish are doing ok in the various ph levels don't start raising or dropping the ph levels with chemicals. You can use peat in a bucket that you age your water in to help lower your ph level, or like @Flash, use RO water. Trust me I speak from experience on fiddling with the parameters, it could cost you fish in the long run...

 

Yip, I have to agree with this. Many fish today have been tank bread so, they have become accustom to a change in ph. Discus who are known to be difficult fish and enjoy soft water have been reported to thrive in ph up to 8.0 due to them being in the hobby for so long. It would be interesting to know what fish you have? Not sure how the ph will affect plants over time. I would assume that they will adapt perhaps @Sean J may have a view on this.

I use discus buffer from seachem to lower my ph and I use it in an aging bucket. Works well for me with a stable PH of around 6.5

 

I do have a few things to say about this. Firstly, @dash - Your Seachem Discus buffer is Phosphate based. And you're adding unnecessary phosphate into your tank. This could lead to algae issues later down the line.

Secondly, fiddling too much with ph is a bad thing. If you add a buffer to your tank, and the ph drops drastically, you run the risk of inducing ph shock to your fish. This is a killer. If you pre treat your water, that's fine, but never add buffers directly to your aquarium.

When you want to soften your water, make sure you soften the water change water. So pretreating your water in a bucket for a few days is a good thing. Running peat in a filter to do this will help. Adding peat directly to your tank will not work long term, as the peat will continue to soften the water until it can no longer soften, and your ph could crash. So treating in a separate container for a few days is advisable.

Just remember, a ph of 7.4 does not mean that your water is "hard". You can have a high ph but very little kh and gh. You need to test these, to get an accurate representation of what your water is really like.

Most fish prefer stable conditions, as people have already mentioned. So by not messing around too much, you will be fine. You just wont be able to breed soft water fish like discus, or rams, or Apistos in that water, as the eggs wont be fertilized.

 

My tanks PH is almost at 8.0 but I leave it as is I have learned not too tamper too much with it, I did try once which causes a massive outbreak of Ich in my tank. All my fish are happy and healthy they will adapt to whatever the water conditions in your area are.

 

Thanks for all the advice guys. I also read everywhere that trying to change pH is generally not a good idea. But obviously at some point it becomes bad enough that something needs to be done. So is a pH of 8 generally still acceptable? I keep the following fish.

Silver dollars
Neon, glowlight tetras
Redfin glassfish
Polka dot loaches
BN pleco

In the small tank I have
An assortment of corys
BN pleco
Hara jerdoni catfish
Glass catfish
Xray tetras

Sent from my SM-P605 using Tapatalk

 

Seriously dude, your fish would be fine if the fish can survive in lps water then they will do just fine in yours.

 

Haha, they survive a couple of days at a lps only... :cheesy:

The glass catfish might not make it with a PH of 8.. that type of pH is perfect for African Cichlids!

But I tend to agree with Swag.. the fish will adapt it they are acclimatized properly. but they will not thrive, i.e. not show their full colour, breeding, etc.

 

My german rams seems perfectly happy with my PH setup So are my Rummy Noses and Galaxy Rasbora