PPM/ PH/ Water Softening - Whats yours?

Hi Guys I just wanted to get an idea of PPM and PH in your tanks.

I have a 1 week old tank and it measures as follows.(No fish yet as i'm still working with the water quality.)

TDS(Total Dissolved Salts) = 200ppm
PH = 5.8

I plan to go and take the measurements of the LFS water, where I intend to purchase German Blue Rams from. It might give me an idea of how I need to adapt my water quality.
Does anybody make use of water softeners e.g peat pillows?
All comments and recommendations are welcome...

 

Do not fight the water column ... plant, populate to its strengths .. most plants adapt over time, some fish not so much. In JHB I think we have liquid concrete flowing from our tap and things like ADA substrate that is a bit acid helps to improve on this. Dirk does his DSD that includes water conditioning for both slaapstadt and GP water types.

Later Ferdie

 

i'm using seachem to get my liquid concrete to its current ph of 6.5.no idea whats the tds though i'd love to know how the buffer affects it.considering going the RO way.

 

If your pH is 5.8 just be happy and don't try to change anything. Your rams will love it. My pH, to give you an example, is about 8.

 

woah!! thats "Karate Water" @ PH = 8

Thanks for all the input guys...

 

potch hAve a ph of 9

 

Used to be in Faerie Glen and the water was soft and had a pH of around 6.8 to 7.5. Now I am in Rooihuiskraal and it is at 8.5

 

alot of chemicals. also limestone and dolomite rock. you even taste tge high ph in the water. not very good to drink

 

Hi guys,

I saw this thread and thought I'd just quickly say one or two things.

Ph and water hardness. . . .the age old misunderstood concept.
I'll try make a comparison to illustrate.

"I'm thirsty because its a very hot day!"

Though my above statement makes complete sense, it does not exclude the possibility that I can also be thirsty on a cold day, or that I can for that matter not be thirsty on a hot day.

Ph and hardness is similar to the comparison, though it is generally accepted that harder water result in higher ph levels and vice versa. It is however possible to have hard water with a low ph.

Hardness is divided into General- (gh) and Carbonate hardness (kh). In aquaria use it is generally expressed in either 'degrees' or as parts per million in total disolved solids. The latter refers to the amount of x mg dissolved in one litre of water.
Kh which refers to the amount of calcium carbonate can be removed from water by either boiling the water, or by using peat, which acts as an "ion exchanger". Effectively the humic acids bind to the calcium carbonate and thus lowers the kh, BUT this also lowers the waters ability to buffer it against a ph drop. Kh in other words is responsible (in aquaria) for maintaining a stable ph.
As a result of the nitrate cycle, acidic buildup in the aquarium over time result in a slow but steady drop in ph. If there is no Kh in the water, slow and steady becomes very quick, and a sudden drop in ph will result in the death of fish.
General hardness refers to the amount of sulphates in the water (calcium-, magnesium- etc)
Its not possible to remove these via peat or softening pillows, an RO filter is needed. Some deionising resins will exchange these with for example potassium, but this does not alter the tds, its just like taking all the salt out of water and replacing it with sugar.
General hardness is what is referred to when fish need "soft" or "hard" water.

I have now written too much already.
The bottom line here though is-if a fish, such as Rams require "soft acidic water", it is of no help to use water softening pillows, ph adjusters etc. It might very well lower the ph, but it also increases the Tds, thus resulting in harder water, with a lower ph.
Even filtering the water via peat will only result in a lower kh and ph, with no effect on gh.
To have "soft water" RO or distilled water should be mixed with normal tap water to achieve the desired gh level. Once this is done care should be taken as to the waters buffering ability (kh) to avoid ph fluctuations.

All things considered - if not experienced enough, just leave the water as is and keep fish that will adapt to it. Careless practices will just result in a bigger disaster than imperfect gh/kh/ph levels.

Rgds

Marco

 

Discus Buffer
Product Description
Discus Buffer™ helps to replicate the ideal Discus environment (low pH & low GH (General Hardness)). Discus Buffer™ will lower pH and keep it lowered. Discus Buffer™ also softens water by precipitating calcium and magnesium. Use Discus Trace™ to restore the proper level of trace elements required by thriving, healthy Discus.

Neutral Regulator™ and Discus Buffer™ can be used in combination to achieve a desired pH when performing water changes or adding top off water. The ratio chart below is designed for r/o water where there is generally no buffering capacity.
Sizes: 50 g, 250 g, 500 g, 1 kg, 4 kg, 20 kg, 100 kg
Directions
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Use 1 level teaspoon (7 g) for every 40-80 L (10-20 gallons*) daily until intended pH is reached. Thereafter, use once a month or with water changes as required to maintain pH. To raise pH, use Neutral Regulator™. To target a particular pH use in combination with Neutral Regulator™ following the chart below. This chart assumes the use of unbuffered water (RO or DI). If water is already buffered use the chart as a starting guide. Use Prime® to dechlorinate tap water before doing a water change.[/FONT]

 

Hi Oscar freak -

I'm not quite following your reason for posting the above?
I take it is to prove my claims are wrong?

What the discus buffer "description" does not explain properly, is that in the process of their claimed "precipitating" of calcium and magnesium, a replacement is left behind.
This "replacement" is phosphates, in LARGE quantities!

Feel free to test the results and see if adding these products will have any lowering effect on tds levels.
Also take note that phosphates is the prime reason for algae growth, and with decomposing matter already resulting in increased phosphate levels-is it wise to add more phosphates to the aquarium for a percieved and "false" softening effect?

One cannot add anything to soften water, one needs to remove to soften it.

Rgds

Marco

 

Hi Marco, thanks for the reply... While I don't think its Oscar Freaks intention to prove anybody wrong... he is just perhaps providing an example of products that maybe of use in an attempt to soften water.
I completely understand what you are saying with regards to water softening and perhaps I should just try to accommodate it with the right kinds of fish in regards to the hardness.

 

im no expert in this reguard and dont mean to prove anyone wrong,just showing what the people who make the stuff i use have to say.

is this then a half truth or out and out lie.

 

I use "boorgat" water that has a GH of 0-0.5 a ph of 5.8 and kh 2
there is next to nothing in my water as it is so soft I have to buffer it a bit with river sand that increases my ph to 6.5 and general hardness to 3 and kh to 4
I do this because the water is so soft that anything can make it spike and I don't want to lose fish. Marco also mentioned this in his first post.

 

Hi @oscar freak

I apologise if me asking if you want to prove my claims as wrong came across as me being an @&S. That was not intended.
Its just that you posted the piece about Seachems product's without explaining why, the relevance etc. So obviously I have to make deductions as no clear intention was stated.

You ask if the description is then an out and out lie, or a half truth?

That depends on perspective.
If you view water hardness strictly as dependant on levels of calcium and magnesium content, then its a half-truth.
If you view hardness as the total amount of dissolved solids in the water. then its an out and out lie.
If you run a simple test, with one liter of water -and you measure the tds of your tap water, you will get X reading. Then add this discus buffer, which adds phosphates to the water - and you will then get a reading >X.
So how has the water become softer?

This might be fine for certain fish - but then logic says, if increasing the tds of the water makes no difference to the fish being kept, then on the same principle - just leaving the water 'as is' wont affect them either. So why bother spending money and adding anything in the first place? Can you agree with this logic?
For fish however which will prefer a low tds, adding this makes no sense at all-as illustrated above it will reult in a nett increase in tds levels.

@nicolaas
I suggest you recheck your water test readings. Gh is partially made up of kh - so its not really possible for you to have a kh level higher than a gh level. (this is also not meant disrespectfully)
As to river sand increasing the kh levels - i suppose that one depends on the mineral content of the river sand. If no calcium carbonate is present, it will have no effect. But for that you need to test to be sure, and if you say it is having the effect you described, I wont question it and accept it as such. Normal river sand as commonly accepted will not have this effect however, as there is no Cal Carb present.
At the same time again, using coral or shell to stabilise ph in soft water also has a nett effect on Tds levels. As the hydrogen ions bind to the Cal.Carb in the coral, it is "dissolved' in the water and increases the tds levels, thus increasing the hardness of the water.

Hope it makes sense.

Rgds

Marco

 

no worries its all good,i should have elaborated just so busy here im typing between customers.

 

I just saw my post very sorry @Marco I got mixed up with the gh and kh its the opposite what I posted

I actually discovered that the river sand has a effect on my water as that it keeps the ph gh and kh stable, as before I put sand in my one tank my ph jumped between 5.5 and 6.5 and my gh and kh did not change.
And when I added the sand the ph became stable and my overall hardness raised.