@ashley - every time i hear that argument about how you'll save money by getting tagged - i say think how much you'll save my refusing to yet again, fund the incompetence of the government. they're using that argument to try and get people to do it - hell no. 6 months or a few years in - they're suddenly going to raise the rates anyway, and because you're in the system, you're going to be royally screwed.
No way will I register or pay... The Public Investment Corporation - an investment manager for state institutions - has bought R17 billion in SANRAL bonds. 89% of this investment is made-up of the Government Employees Pension Funds. It is now clear that there are huge economic issues at stake. If the tolling project fails, Government will not only have to bail-out SANRAL, but it will also have to bail-out the civil servants' pension funds as well. This government took money from the government pension fund and illegally invested it into SANRAL, I am an ex-air force member, now on government pension. For my entire career, each month, I invested a portion of my salary into the pension fund... This government has now stolen my pension, used it illegally and now I must pay it off again... No way will I support this scam! Blackmail ['blæk?me?l] noun 1. (Law) the act of attempting to obtain money by intimidation, as by threats to disclose discreditable information 2. the exertion of pressure or threats, esp unfairly, in an attempt to influence someone's actions vb (tr) 1. (Law) to exact or attempt to exact (money or anything of value) from (a person) by threats or intimidation; extort 2. to attempt to influence the actions of (a person), esp by unfair pressure or threats ex·tor·tion (k-stôrshn) noun. 1. The act or an instance of extorting. 2. Illegal use of one's official position or powers to obtain property, funds, or patronage. 3. An excessive or exorbitant charge. 4. Something extorted ter·ror·ism [ter-uh-riz-uhm] noun 1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes. 2.the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization. 3.a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government. Pick the one you like most!
have to say the black mail and extortion sound very very familiar. i think this issue is going to become a huge problem and to be frank i feel very little sympathy for the people responsible. the fact that pensioners and rescue organisations arent excempt from this is in my mind horrifying. the rescue orginisations are already batttling financially as are the pensioners to say nothing about the effect it will have on tertiary students trying to get to classes. i emailed SANRAL yesterday asking them to explain where im supposed to get the money i'll need to get to my classes since im still a student am unemployed despite already having a qualification and have very little prospect of finding work at the moment. i told them they are going to destroy our countries economy not build it and that they are putting extreme financial pressure on the young people like myself who are trying to find work in an already inhospitable enviroment. we will see what their response will be.
There it is... I keep telling ppl it's against our countries laws and human rights to force ppl to pay for something they cant or don't want to pay for... SCAMRAL are Terrorists supported by our terrorist governance. PPL are so easy to intimidate in RSA. We are just to used to sitting back and watching it all go down the gutters.
on the bright side... since pensioners aren't exempt from tolls, maybe it'll keep the dangerous oldies off the highways. lol. JUST A JOKE!
lol Problem is taxi's are (Last I heard) and I'm sure they will be using the highways most of everyone.
I have also not purchased a tag and will not unless absolutely necessary. Yes I have also heard taxis are exempt. The reason for this is clear if the taxis had to pay they would probably go on protest and block the entire highway. We are easy targets because we wouldn't go to those extremes - maybe we should! The thing that upsets me the most! Is today I went to the mall for a few minutes and lots of people where signing up at the etoll shop\stall. If people sign up, it unfortunately lessens our chances of having the system scrapped. Everyone needs to stand together and firm on this one!
@TomK... I made myself clear that I wasn't supporting the E-toll... was just throwing a few curve balls into the thread. You wanna take a short "holiday" for a few days? I have the power to let it come to pass...
That was a really quick re-edit. Just remember he still has the power. And TIA it might be called black mail but saying someone is blackmailing you is racist... Catch 22
First of all, I do not support the tolls. But I have been reading with growing concern over these tolls. We all know that the government is a law unto themselves. They are not going to take this lying down, we can already see it but the fact of them sending so much to be gazetted, eg: the increased cost of non e-tag holders, the fact they haven't finalised the public transport reductions, the fact they want to create a SCAMRAL police force (however in the meanwhile I suspect that JMPD will be tasked will collecting tolls at every and all roadblocks, screw crime in the city) and the fact by them wanting to make the e-tags compulsory. It is all very well to say we will use secondary roads however how long will they last up to the punishment of the majority of the traffic using them? Also how congested will they be? It was calculated that it would be the equivalent of R2 per litre increase to pay the equivalent in tolls. It is worrying how far the government will go to secure the running of their gravy train. The sad thing is that the tax payer that is being affected by a government who was put into power by the poor and rural populace, which isn't affected by the tolls. I hope that the legal action against SCAMRAL will provide some fruit, cause if this goes ahead, it will be the death of JHB and PTA.
[FONT=&]This is very long, but I thought I'd put it in for everyone's contemplation... At first glance and when comparing the normal toll rates, to that of the discounted toll rates when you elect to register, the normal and reasonable uninformed motorist would be guided only by the discounts when signing up for registration[/FONT]. [FONT=&]After perusal of Sanral Terms & Conditions however, and which must be signed prior to registration, you will immediately note that the advantages of registering as an E-Toll user is very limited and comes with various onerous and one sided terms and obligations favouring only Sanral. Many clauses in their terms and conditions are [/FONT][FONT=&]either unlawful or in contravention of the Consumer Protection Act. [/FONT] DISADVANTAGES FOR MOTORISTS WHO ELECT TO REGISTER AS AN E-TAG OR VLN USER 1. The discounts promised, and categorization as a registered E Tag user will not apply to all toll roads. 2. The onus is placed on the registered E-Toll user to establish their user categorization and/or the tolls applicable to a specific E-Toll road. The motorist can obtain the information from Sanral website. 3. A motorist who registers and thereafter fails to comply with any of Sanral’s prescribed terms and conditions, will be deemed to be an E-Road violator and their account can be referred to a collection agency called “Violations Processing Centre†which is a division of Sanral itself. (See paragraph 2 of Sanral terms & conditions). 4. Motorist who register will be billed and will be liable for toll transactions recorded according to the user VLN or E-Tag. 5. Motorist who register agree and understand that their liability to incur toll when the motor vehicle passes a tolling point and that the amount of toll is calculated with reference to the tolling point and not with reference to the KM travelled before the user reaches the tolling point. 6. Motorist who register are given 3 payment options for topping up their E Toll accounts namely, Pre-Paid Accounts, Manual Top Up Payments, Automatic Top Up Payments, all associated with the risk taking into account that you are contracting with a wholly owned State Company where corruption is at the order of the day. 7. Motorists who register further agrees and undertakes to ensure at all times that there is sufficient funds in the E-Toll account and should you fail to make sufficient payments into your E-Toll account will give Sanral the right to hand over your account to VPC for collection purposes. 8. Motorists who register and who elect to link their E-Toll account to a credit card bank account, debit card further authorizes Sanral to: a. debit the motorists account to fund the E-Toll account for Toll fees incurred when raised; b. undertakes to ensure that sufficient funds are available in the account; c. places the duty on the motorist to notify Sanral of bank account detail changes. 9. A registered motorist undertakes and agrees to settle all E-Toll transactions within any period required by Sanral. 10. Should the registered motorist fail to make payments when required to do so, Sanral will have the right without notice to the motorists to suspend the motorist account, to red list the E-Tag and to hand the account over for collection to VPC. 11. The registered motorist further agrees that failure to make payment in respect of an E-Toll transaction in terms of the terms & conditions may result in criminal proceedings against themselves. 12. By registering the motorist agrees and understands that a statement of charges will be available on the E-Toll website for download and that should hard-copies be requested, that Sanral will have the right to charge for furnishing such copies. 13. Registered motorists agree that any payment made to Sanral will be utilized against the oldest charge to the most recent. 14. Registered motorist E-Toll account will be suspended if not used for a period of 12 months and will have to be reactivated. (at a charge). 15. Registered motorist agrees further that Sanral will not be held responsible for any loss or damage a motorist may suffer as a result of incorrect banking details being provided by the user and captured by Sanral except for instances where Sanral or its agent acted with gross negligence. 16. Registered motorists agree to be liable for additional fees and attorney charges which may be incurred by Sanral in the collection of outstanding E-Toll amounts. 17. Registered motorists further consent to the onerous provision that it will be deemed that the fees charged by Sanral are correct and the onus is placed on the motorist to prove that such charges are incorrect. 18. Registered motorists will not be provided with a receipt when they proceed through the tolling point. A tax invoice may however be requested but then at the expense of the motorist. 19. By registering for an E Tag account the onus is placed on the motorist to change the motor vehicle details linked to the E Toll account when you lose possession of the vehicle or where ownership in respect of the vehicle is transferred to a third party. Failure to do so will mean that the motorist will remain liable for any E-Toll charges incurred. 20. By registering the motorist acknowledges and accepts that by purchasing an E Tag and registering same does not in itself necessary result in a valid passage on an E Toll Road and that you may be prevented by Sanral to continue driving on the E Road. 21. By registering, the motorist agrees and accepts that Sanral will be entitled and without notice to the motorist to suspend an E Toll account and to Red List an E Tag, for failure of any of Sanral terms & conditions. Should the motorist later prove that there was no transgression of Sanral terms & conditions, they will have no claim against Sanral as in terms of the agreement such claims are waived by the motorist in favour of Sanral. 22. Whilst ownership in the E Tag and E Tag holder remains the property of Sanral the risk of loss, theft or damage passes to you upon delivery. 23. By registering, the motorist irrevocably authorizes Sanral or its duly authorized agents to obtain from any institutions where they may have an account or any credit bureau any information concerning themselves. 24. By registering the motorist further acknowledge and accepts that Sanral may unilaterally update and amend their terms & conditions and that the motorist has consented to such amendments and has agreed to abide by such amended terms & conditions. 25. By registering for an E Tag, the motorist is affording Sanral a blanket indemnity for any wrong doing, loss or damage that the motorist may have suffered by using the E road. 26. A registered motorist further agrees to an unlawful provision in consenting to the jurisdiction of the Magistrate’s Court of Pretoria in respect of all matters arising out of the terms & conditions. [FONT=&] [/FONT] ADVANTAGES FOR MOTORIST WHO ELECTS NOT TO REGISTER AND RATHER PAY THE NORMAL TOLL RATE TARIFFS 1. Motorist will be billed for the use of the E Toll, without automatically being liable for such use, in the event of receiving incorrect readings from Sanral, theft, cloning of number plates, or the cloning of a motorist personal information etc 2. The onus will be on Sanral to prove that it was the motorist’s vehicle that travelled the recorded distances. 3. Payments will be made and effected by the motorist into a Sanral bank account. 4. Sanral’s collection division (VPC) will have no jurisdiction over non registered motorists. 5. Motorists will be entitled to monthly statements without any charge. 6. Motorists would be entitled to dictate how payments be allocated in respect of Toll road usage. 7. Motorists who do not register would not automatically be liable for additional fees or attorney charges. 8. The onus remains on Sanral to prove that the fees charged and for which the motorist is debited are correct. 9. Until an exemption notice is published motorist will be entitled to a receipt when paying for E Toll road usage. 10. In the event of a dispute with Sanral regarding outstanding charges, Sanral will not have the right to prevent the non registered motorist from continued use of the E Toll road. 11. Losses suffered by non registered motorist can be recovered by way of civil action. 12. Sanral will not have the right to have access to any private information of a non registered motorist. 13. Sanral will not have the right to amend any terms & conditions without the motorist agreeing to such amendments. 14. In the event of litigation, Sanral will have to issue a civil Summons or proceed criminally against the motorist in terms of the Criminal Procedure Act and will be forced to litigate against the motorist in a Magistrate’s Court who has jurisdiction over that motorist. (It is unlawful to consent to the jurisdiction of a specific Magistrate’s Court).
Wow...enough said. Anyways... I agree that this toll will have nothing but a negative effect on almost everyone and im so tired of seeing this country going to the dogs and everyone sitting back and doing nothing about it! Its great to see people standing up and saying enough is enough! Ive spent alot of time travelling through Africa and trust me this country is slowly turning into the same as every other curropt, poor crime ridden african country out there.
Wow @Barry.M thanks for that post it was very informative and frightening that there are people out there that are actually giving SANRAL so much power over their accounts. i'm highly tempted to finish my landscaping certificate and leave the country for good or even find some small lil town somewhere. it does irritate me that there are people registering for the e tag as they are undermining those of us trying to get it abolished. this whole thing is a major breach of our constitution in my opinion and i really hope the DA or COSATU actually win their court cases. from what i've read there are 200 000 registered users which constitutes about 10% of gauteng road users and the Star newspaper believes that the majority of that 10% is made up with state owned vehicles and large corperations and very few actual privately owned vehicles. that being said i fear that in the end we will be "farting against thunder" as my mom says and it will go ahead regardless of the opposition, we will be lining some fat cats pocket overseas since only a samll percentage of the profits remain in the country. if i read what Barry.M's post is saying correctly it means that even if SANRAL does not maintain the highways we can still be billed for them and cannot refuse to pay because the roads are in bad condition. it effectively gives carte blanche for the corrupt to pocket money meant for maintenace allowing the roads to deteriate and stopping the users of the road from doing anything about it. there is no transparency in the whole thing and i think there will be more than one registered user who will be burned in the near future. i still wont register, if you really want to piss me off try force me to do something it just makes me dig my heels in more. if the b@$^%#rds want my money they can come find me for it!
