Bacteria Bloom

Hi Prof,

Thanks for the foods, my fish just love it all. I did post this under species thread but have had no responses and I do know you are very busy.

I have a Planted tank (200L) and want to go bb. I crashed my bio 2 weeks ago with meds and been doing daily wc checking nitrites and ammonia.I vacum everyday when doing wc. I do find lots of food going to waste, I think it blends well with the substrate. Some days I do 50% wc and some days 25%, when doing the larger ones I find it gets worse than the smaller ones.
I wanted to know whether I should wait until my tank is fully cycled to remove gravel or whether I should remove fish and clean tank out (keep half water) and fill up. Keep up with daily wc keeping a check on nitrites and ammonia. Ive read that the bacteria live on the gravel and also read that they live in your filter and not your water column but not sure if i do remove it I would be removing bacteria much needed and what about wc would I also be removing bacteria??

I have tested the tap water for ammonia and get the same reading as my tank, 0,003mg/l and decided to test my ageing water and get the same reading. I use Safe guard 5 to declorinate my water and heat/aerate for 24hrs. I have found a supplier for Seachem Prime, and Seachem products (Ill have to get seachem test kits if using prime otherwise Ill get false readings for ammonia.) I use sera test kits, I have checked expiry dates they are good.

I think i also have an algae bloom, which I thought I had sorted but seems to have returned, do you think daphinia would do the job, I only put lights on to feed. I daily remove 1 filter pad(2 of them) the top one and replace it. I also have a prefilter sponge on the intake which I rinse daily. The water seems green when rinsing.
I have a blue: 20w
Rose: 25w
White: 10000k 25w

Tank readings:
Ph 7
No2 0,5mg/l before wc if todays readings same , I will add some salt.
No3 10
Kh 3dh
gh need to test

No of fish:

7 Juvie discus (domestic) 7-10cm
2 ancistrus
10 rummy nose

I know this a a bio load, I am currently seeding and cycling a tank for some of the fish.
I have also cut back on the amounts of food fed but still 3 times a day which should be more, but will wait till bloom over and bb.

I have added Sera Nitrivec but do feel nervous I dont want to harm my fish, they say with wc.

Thanking you kindly
Kind regards
Jane

 

Hi Jane,

I cannot give a long answer now as I have a huge amount of work, so I will answer briefly.

Reduce your feeding now to cause less ammonia production from the food, you should also not have uneaten food lying around it just worsens things. Add a heaped tablespoon of salt per 100 litres to counter possible nitrite toxicity. Don't remove the gravel as this does serve as a biological filter.

I would advise less water changes as this just causes more upsets in the bacteria in your filters.

Don't remove and replace any filter pads from your filter, just wash them, you are weakening your biological filtration which is exactly what you do not want to do. Also don't rinse the sponge all the time because this also reduces biological filtration. What is the volume and capacity of your filter? Somehow I get the feeling it is much too small for the number of fishes that you are keeping.

The 10000 k lamp is fueling your algal problem, remove and put it into the trash can! If you reduce the light you will also reduce the algal problem in any case.

I detect that you are manipulating your tank far too much and this is just simply a ticket for disaster, you must reduce this or else you are going to have losses of your discus.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Hi Jane,

How did things go today? Apologies for the brief reply earlier today, but I had a huge amount of deadlines to attend and you sounded rather desperate. Any signs of improvement? Please reply about your filter. On the other thread I see you mention tiny amounts of ammonia, I sincerely doubt whether that kit is measuring correctly. You should rather test nitrite levels as this is more likely to be the problem. Remember the chemical formula of nitrite is NO2 and not NO3 which is nitrate and this is almost harmless at levels up to 20 mg/l.

I also wanted to ask which meds you claim to have knocked out your filter with, some meds do nothing to a filter and you asked me about metranidazole a while back, this is one of the meds that does nothing to a filter.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Hi Prof,

Thanks for your help, I do know you are very busy and your advice did help alot. I have been testing Nitrites and have always got a reading of 0 except for yesterday it was 0,5 mg/l, todays reading is 0 for nitrite and ammonia same 0,003 mg/l. I did add salt. My ph has dropped from 7-6.5 I didnt do a wc I just cleaned gravel and topped up. I did throw the light in the trash can and my tank looks good even with a tinge of green. It does look much better even though its still there, it seems clearer.
I have a Jebo R911 powerhead 900Lp/hr built in filter bed. I treated with Protazin. Which testing kit do you suggest I use.(not sure if allowed to ask on forum?)
Thanks kindly
Regards
Jane

 

Dear Jane,

You must promise me to NEVER EVER use Protozin EVER again on your discus. You are very lucky that you have not killed them all in the process. I have seen many discus killed by using Protozin. It contains amongst others, malachite green which belongs in the museum of fishkeeping because of its side-effects. You may have used this because you suspected an Ich infection. Well you can actually treat ich with metranidozole which has very little side effects on discus and also does not influence the filter bacteria. However, Protozin also does NOTHING to filters, so there is some other problem here and I think it is the filter capacity, this is causing the increased nitrite levels. I think you have too little filter capacity for the fishes that you are keeping. How big is the chamber part of this filter and what is in it? Ceramic rings or what?

Forget about the slight change in pH it has no effect whatsoever.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

I struggled to get this on the internet. It the Jebo R911M. Does not look like a filter. There is no place to add any media in there.

@ JANE: Do you have it connected to anything else?

 

Hi Ace007,

Thanks, that is pretty obvious,

Kind regards
Jane

 

Hi Jane,

I am sorry to say but this is not obvious. What do you mean? Is this powerhead connected to an undergravel filter? If it is this is a ticket for disaster, because with the amount of waste discus produce and what you are saying to us, then the gravel bed is most probably clogged with uneaten food and this is giving you the elevated ammonia and nitrite levels. So Ace007 is actually trying to help.

So what is the powerhead connected to? Please explain, this is important, also how big is the undergravel plate?

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Hi Prof,

I PROMISE NEVER to use Protozin again, Its hard when you have so many people advising who actually have no clue and some of the info out there is so confusing and conflicting.
I tested water today for nitrites and its reading 0. Regarding the size of my filter bed (not sure how to measure) Length 28cm, Breadth 14cm, depth 10cm. I have ceramic rings and sponges with filter pad(not wool)
I do have a cannister filter, but still awaiting for valve replacement which they did receive but for wrong model so this is prolonging it all.
My tank is still not clear but green so I cant see if the bacteria bloom is still there, I can see my plants and fish but not so well towards the back of the tank.
How often should I do wc, I normally do it every second day but was again advised to do- Quote - ("50% wc if your ammonia or nitrate show a level above zero, if these numbers are elevated, check daily and change water as necessary. If these numbers are at zero and your nitrate stays below 30, then the biological filter is stable and working and the bloom will resolve in time. Perform water changes as you normally do")

Thank you sooo much for your help, I do feel less stressed. How do I deal with the algae bloom? I have done the first step(removed lamp) should I blackout the tank for 4 days do a wc before and after as I know there will be loads of dead algae?

Kind regards
Jane

 

Hi Prof,

No there is NO undergravel filter or plates, it has a tube coming up from the head/pump which is bent and makes a T and has a rain spray over the filter bed, It is not a powerhead it is actually a pump (apologies)(just checked it out) and has a intake pipe under and a pipe on the side for air/current.
Kind regards
Jane

 

Hi Jane,

Re the medications, I should actually write a list of medications that you can or should use for discus, and a list of what you should not use.

The gravel bed is not sufficient to remove fine particles and the algae from the water. You need your canister filter for this which you have explained is out of action. This is however, not such a big problem. Discus can quite easily cope with the green water and you need not attend to the algal problem with black outs now, wait for your filter. You can do smaller 25-30% water changes, but if you do 50% water changes on a daily or even every second day basis your discus are going to get problems with bacterial skin infections because of the constant change, so do not do such large water changes.

I still do not understand this gravel bed that you are using and perhaps you can send us a pic?

If your NITRITE and ammonia levels are 0 then things are ok and you should not panic, just don't overfeed.

What is obvious though is that your priority should lie with getting your canister filter back into action.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Hi Prof,

I have a Jebo tank with a built in filter chamber and no gravel bed, just substrate straight on glass tank floor. I will try and take a photo or I will find one on their site and post it. I do phone the Lps often to enquire regarding part but they are still waiting on Supplier. I will definitely get it up and running asap.
Thanks
Kind regards
Jane

 

HI Ace007,

Apologies to you I am a women and learning all the names of pumps/parts etc, thanks for your help and good intentions.

Kind regards
Jane

 

No problem :blink1:

Thought when you mentioned filter bed and a Jebo pump that it was those in the canopy.
I checked your older posts but could not find what type of tank you had so didn't want to assume.

Those built in filter beds works on the 30 - 40 liter tanks but on the bigger models like your 200l tank it is NOT enough.

On a tank that size you need a bigger filter. (Like your canister :idea

When the canister is working again just use this built in system to move the water around with nothing in it or maybe with some ceramic rings in for bio bacteria?

 

Jane if i can make a suggestion to help the filter along. Go to Panorama and ask them for some SpecialBlend. This will help get the filter going as well bioremediate the water.

Have a look here for more info:

http://www.microbelift.com/products/home-aquarium/bacterial-products/special-blend

 

Hi Ace007

Thanks for that info. Im learning more everyday.
Kind regards
Jane

 

I'm also learning every day!! Awesome hobby this.

I'm trying to think what you can do to make that Jebo pump work better for you.
All I can think of is that you will have to get a piece of pipe that will go over the out of the pump and into a bucket or something bigger that you can put on top of your tank. Something like a 4L ice cream bucket. Or something the same size as you canister. Maybe use the filter media of the canister filter in there and when you get the part for your filter you can just put all the media from the bucket into the canister and you don't have to wait for it to "cycle".

Although Henk's suggestion would help with that

Let the pipe in at the top of the bucket and make holes in the bottom of the bucket so that it drips in your filter bed. Do not add more water to the tank as it should drop a little with the 4L water out of the tank. If you stop the pump for some reason it will empty the bucket obviously back into the tank. It might not look to good but should help allot.

If I think of another way I'll let you know.

 

Hi Ace007

Thanks man, I phoned Lps yesterday and it should be here on Monday, if not I will attempt to follow your directions (hope I dont flood out my house).
Kind regards
Jane

 

hi Jane you got your canister sorted?

 

Hi Ace007,

Yes, Up and running on Tuesday, All seems well with water and it has cleared up a bit but still got some green water but not so bad, I will have to have patience.
thanks for all your help and concerns.
Kind regards
Jane